“Everything can exist. When a man is ready to give away his body, to face a death, then only he becomes God. Until, unless, he don’t know anything (he remains) just man – feeling only his physical body.”

Swamy V.  Stone & Steel Pt. 1

Excerpt from Two Idiots & a Man
Vol. I: In Search of the Steel
Ch. 2 Steel & Stone

Divine Instruments: I Have No Religion

“So then, further, you have anything, doubt?” he asks Duncan.

“I have no doubt, Babaji,” Duncan answers, then turns to the audience. “Do you have questions? Please. Yes, Kip?”

“This might be a stupid question,” Kip begins, adjusting himself on the floor.

“No problem,” Baba answers, and the tension is broken.

“Ya’ know, what the hell are we?” Kip begins. “We’re spirits? Is that what we are? We’re not these bodies?”

The master looks to Duncan for a translation. “What he says?”

“Are we spirits?” Duncan rephrases. “What is this body? Who are we? In other words, what does it mean to be a human being?”

“You are just a puppet of Him.” Babaji points upwards, and Kip continues.

“Everything, I mean, if I do good things or bad things, I feel that it’s just…”

Babaji cuts him off. “Everything will exist in you, as He exists in everything.”[1]

“Then why don’t I, or haven’t I…” Kip is stammering, conflicted, trying to convey too much, too quickly. “I mean, I’m beginning to know this, but this is going to sound very strange, too, but why haven’t I known this before?”

The master again looks to Duncan to translate.

“Make it straight, Kip,” Duncan admonishes. “Just be straight. Straight question.”

“Chota question,” Baba follows up. “Small question, straight away through.”

“Why do we not know this?” Kip manages.

“That’s your ignorance,” Babaji answers as a matter of fact. The group giggles, and a young lady next to Kip has a follow-up question of her own.

“Why is he so ignorant?” she asks.

“What do you mean, ‘he’?” Duncan asks.

“Me,” Kip answers, but Duncan remains focused on the girl.

“Own it,” Duncan offers to the questioning girl with a laugh.

“He said he was!” she defends.

“Eh? Wait!” Babaji implores.

Kip, finding his center, presses forward. “Why am I so ignorant?”

“These are the ignorance that what we have in our body.” The master presses Kip with his gaze, inviting engagement.

“So, our purpose is to just be?” Kip paces himself.

“Just be here. Do your work. Without work, nothing can be done.”

“And don’t worry,” Kip adds.

“Eh?”

“Don’t worry,” Kip repeats, and Babaji takes up the mantle.

“So, you may be a God; stay still. No need these [clothes] also. No need car. Can you walk from here to Tokyo, all along your life? Can you do that, always? Can you wander without a car? Can you do that? You cannot. If you have no food for the next day, you will be hunger. Can you stay in that status, not knowing anything? Can you be there? You cannot.” He laughs heartily.

“Smile always. Be happy. Don’t feel. Don’t feel. Stay still, as you are, Mr. Kip. That’s the best idea.[2]

“Trying to know the Self needs strong energy. Just must be ready to give anything, including the body. That’s, what you say, when the spirit goes out – heh?” He snorts. “Only the body goes out. He [God], is always there safe.” Baba taps his heart center. “Merging with Him.

“When you attain that Self, sometimes they say mukti.[3] I don’t know. Many people write many books. They are explaining in many books. Some ideas are good, some ideas are bullshit. Whatever. Hey! You take all the ideas and you make yourself. Accha. You go with every book. No objection. Whatever it exists in you, if you can exist in that. If you are not existing in anything, then it is not existing in you, too.”

“But you must connect to God,” Kip states, exploring his own confidence.

“I am His servant. I am His instrument. He want to do me this only. For this purpose only I am here. I don’t know Tokyo. Even fifteen days before I am going to throw away my passport. I don’t want. You know that? But for the love in this man.” He pats Duncan on the leg. “Good love, bad love, no care. I am here.”

“Everything can exist. When a man is ready to give away his body, to face a death, then only he becomes God. Until, unless, he don’t know anything. Just man, feeling only his physical body.”

Putting down the mantle, Babaji folds his hands in anjali mudra, both blessing and receiving the blessing of the group as he encourages another question. “Anything more?”

 “What does this mean?” Someone off camera enquires about the symbolism of putting the palms together like he does.

“This means, as I feel myself to be God, I feel you to be God. Namaste to you. Namaste to everybody. All are God. Everybody is His creation. You cannot escape. He brought you here. You are His creation. So, I created you.[4] Good and bad is here [in the heart].

“I can put you into any corral, any place. If I desire, I will put you in any idea. I don’t know magic. I am not a magician. My teacher never teach magic. But he teach me some bullshit inside,” he laughs, tapping his head. “I know still, to say myself to be God, and this and that.

“See my destination, where I am, front of a camera. Possibly good, or bad, there is no idea. What it brings, I have no idea. If I have an idea, then only I have to think about this. Chalo. Kucch bhi ho jayega.[5] Anything can happen.”

Everything can happen. You have no desire of happenings. You cannot stop any happenings. Accha. You are not a source, [is] what Krishna says. You are not authorized to think of any benefit. You have to kill. For that purpose only you are here. That’s Krishna. I don’t know.”

 “Speaking to Arjuna,” Duncan interjects for the benefit of the group.

“That’s Krishna,” Babaji retorts with exasperation. “It is enough. Everybody knows Gita.[6] Particularly he knows much, I think,” he says, saluting in the direction of Mr. Raj. “Looks to be very nice.

“We have nothing to do with this world, Duncan. Nothing we are going to carry. Be happy. Whenever we have happy. And that status, you know the God. When you are sad, there don’t run to God. Sad and happiness, always existing everywhere. Everywhere there is sad. Everywhere there is happiness. Don’t feel happy much. Don’t feel sad much. If you put your body into those ideas, this body cannot work to see the Self. Always do your work. Feel His grace.”

Then the master shifts deliberately to Hindi, looking at his friend, Duncan, with affection.

“Kaise hai? Thik hai ki nahin. Tum yane kya mujhe milega?[7]

“Everything is in this world. Accha. What we are not having in this world?” He points to the cassette recorder between them. “According to the modern days, press the button, something going on.”

“Or off,” Duncan offers, as the music abruptly stops at the end of the cassette.

“It’s off?” Everyone laughs. “Accha. See that.”

“No problem. Nice timing.” Duncan switches the cassette.

“See that? We have all the systems in button, eh?” He points above. “The One who have the system in man, He knows the channels. How to off a man, [and] how to put a light in the man.”

“Does he control every single man and plant and everything?” Kip asks.

“Completely it is He. The world is He. Not you. You just an instrument to be here, that He want to do that something with you.”

“Why? Why am I here?” Kip persists.

“Hey. It is your karma. The past, what you have done.”

“Past life?”

“Of course. Possibly there are some destinations in a person, where you have to be. The One who send you here, He only knows. If you want to know that, you be in your Self.”

“I wanna know that,” Kip insists.

“Hey, otherwise, stay still. If you don’t know anything you stay still. No problem. No problem. No problem. Even you don’t pray, no problem. He never kicks you away.

“In India, we are seeing on the [train station] platform, thousands of people with no food. Good man, big, rich man, he eats good food in his palace house, has good cars—he doesn’t know God. He never feels the God. The poor man who is on the platform, satisfied with two pieces of roti says, ‘Accha, for this day I am okay, God. Bas.’[8] Thinking about God, even two roti. The one who gets a luxurious life, and luxurious food, never thinks about that. He only thinks—I.”

“Of the two I, the one I which is with pride, the physical feeling, feels: ‘I make my food’. That’s the ignorant status. Accha. The same one, after losing this luxurious life, when he has no food for himself, will try to abuse the God, too, using harsh language. So what the God thinks? You know? ‘Haah, what a guy I have made and sent there, man. He makes beautiful archanas [offerings] and mantras.’ He only knows that. He doesn’t know how to hate you. Nobody He hates. He never hates anybody. Even you kick Him away, He embraces you. He hugs you. When you are sad, He comforts you. When you are much happy, He is with you.” [9]

“Is He the Christian God, too?” Kip asks. “The Jewish God?”

“I have no religion!” the master erupts, stopping Kip cold. “Don’t put me into religion. I have no religion.” Then, pausing for a long moment, either to temper the fire Kip has just triggered[10] or to consider the most appropriate way forward, he points to the heavens and continues.

“Human beings, we are for the purpose. We are the weapons, erm, we are the instruments of Him. He can make us into weapon, too. He can create us in any idea. Any idea. That somebody says luck and unluck. I don’t know. Luck to be here. To feel His grace. To be happy.”

Kip interjects: “But to feel His grace, first you have to leave your body, and get into…”

“I don’t say that!” the master cuts him off. “Why don’t you feel [God to be] physically with you? When you are having a physical body and He is in you, why don’t you feel Him in the physical body? There needs time.”

“But there are certain things you can’t do with your body if you feel God, see? I’ve discovered that,” Kip insists wryly.

Babaji turns to Duncan. “What he says?”

Duncan interprets: “He’s wondering about correct behavior. Right and wrong. He’s back to right and wrong.”

“You need not to authorize to think about right and wrong.[11] You are not a source. You just do your work. Stay still.”

Kip continues, “Yeah, but if I discover something, then…”

“That is your feeling! Again, you are there. That is your feeling. Kip’s feeling. Not God’s feeling. He is always there. Now also He is watching what you are doing. He knows everything.”

Duncan decides to address Kip directly. “So, you say this is right. This is right to do with my body. And this is wrong to do with my body.”

“No, it feels wrong,” Kip answers.

“Accha. Whatever it feels like, where does the feeling come from? Does it come from God, or does it come from this Kip body?”

“From here,” Kip gestures to his body.

“So, how do you know?” Duncan asks. “God doesn’t make that decision, and He doesn’t invest you with the power to make that decision.[12] Accha?”

Kip counters, “Well, I can’t go around killing people with my body.”

“It’s okay if you go around killing people with your body,” Duncan retorts.

“It doesn’t feel good though,” Kip answers, and Duncan agrees.

 “It isn’t good. It isn’t good, but if that’s what you have to do, that’s what you’ll do. There’s nothing you can do to stop it.” Babaji and others are laughing at the flow of the conversation.

 “I see. I see,” Kip nods, understanding.

 “You see, if you are not for that source, if you are not that instrument, you [may] try again and again, [but] you cannot do anything.”

“I see.”

“You even cannot kill a fly if it is not His desire.”

“So, I have to play my role,” Kip confirms.

“You do. Stay still there, Kip. Be happy.” Everyone laughs.

“That’s the ignorance what we have,” the master continues. “I can stay without food. I cannot say to you the same. Can I say the same to you?”

“No, but I can run farther than you,” Kip replies with a coy grin.

Baba laughs. “Then? We are having two different ideas. Aaah. You need food. I don’t need anything. You need good coat, good car. Me, don’t need anything. Even if there is a road from Tokyo to India, I possibly can walk. You cannot do that. You are in hurry.”

“Well, I’m playing a different role,” Kip suggests.

“Good, good, good. Play that,” Baba answers. “Play that. Stay still. Just be there.”

Duncan follows up, “He doesn’t say to be Him. Just do your thing.”

“Just stay still,” the master confirms. “When you are not knowing anything, stay still. Be there as you are. Be there as you are.”

 “And after this life, I’ll have another role to play?” Kip continues his line of inquiry, but the video footage cuts out before the master’s answer, and when it resumes, he is addressing the group again.

“I’m very glad that I can speak—little. No well-educated person. Third standard, I know.[13] Not an M.E. or B.A. or philosopher. I don’t know. I don’t know. Do you feel happy with me?”

Several nod their pleasure; Kip is more vocal with his approval. “Yeah, absolutely, man. You’re the… You’re good.”

Babaji, palms together, thanks everyone, as a young man in the group comes forward with a question. His name is Kim.

---

[1] Nonduality in a nutshell. The statement succinctly expresses the principle of nonduality (Advaita), where the apparent distinction between the individual self and the universal whole dissolves. It highlights the reciprocal relationship in which the Divine or ultimate reality permeates all existence, and simultaneously, all existence—including the individual—is an expression of that singular reality.

[2] The attenuation of fluctuating emotions (vāsanā) is a fundamental tenet of classical yogic philosophy. Achieving stillness and recognizing one’s essence nature—or reality as it truly is—constitutes the ultimate goal.

[3] Mukti — Translation: release or liberation from saṃsāra, the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth characterized by fluctuating joy and suffering. Also known as mokṣa, it commonly refers to freedom from this endless cycle. In some tantric Buddhist frameworks, it is understood as transcendence beyond the six realms of existence (gods, demi-gods, humans, animals, hungry ghosts, and hells). Though this schema is Buddhist, the metaphor remains relevant in broader yogic and tantric traditions.

[4] (cf. 18 & 19) Like the third-person references discussed in (18), Bābājī’s use of the first-person pronoun “I” often merges His identity with that of God. This reflects the core nondual teaching (cf. 19) that awareness is One, and all reality is simply that awareness manifesting in multiple forms. Readers may benefit from revisiting these passages to grasp this subtlety.

[5] Cēlo — “let’s go” or “let it be.” Kucch means “something” or “anything,” bhī adds emphasis (i.e., “even”), and ho jāyegā means “will happen.” The full phrase ‘Cēlo. Kucch bhī ho jāyegā’ can be loosely rendered as: ‘Let it be—anything can happen.’ It expresses surrender to the flow of events beyond personal control or desire.

[6] Bhagavad Gita, the central story within the greater epic known as the Mahābhārata, is at its core a conversation between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. It focuses on essential duty and process orientation versus results—karma yoga—as well as an instruction in sat-tarka, or true discrimination, a foundational teaching of jñāna yoga, the yoga of real knowledge. The conversation begins with Arjuna’s consternation and deep sadness over the idea of engaging his own kin in war. The subsequent teachings on the ethics and morality of conflict make up a significant portion of the early dialogue. Duncan alludes to this to avoid misconstruing the master’s reference.

[7] “How are you? You’re fine, aren’t you? What have you brought for me?” Babaji’s question creates a tender yet deliberate contrast—an instance of affectionate līlā, or a playful movement of tone that grounds the master-disciple exchange in the warmth of human relationship. Having just spoken of the futility of attachment, the need to remain unaffected by sadness or joy, and anchoring oneself in grace, it’s as if to say: Don’t mistake detachment for coldness. I’m still your friend. I’m still here with you.

Yet even this lightness carries layers. On the surface, he may seem to be asking for a small gift—common in the tradition when visiting a teacher. But such a request would be out of place here. On a subtler plane, the question invites deeper reflection: What of yourself are you offering? Your presence? Your sincerity? In Indian spiritual dialogue, such “simple” questions often conceal profound undercurrents—revealing not just mood, but the disciple’s state, intention, or readiness to truly meet the path.

[8] Roṭī: A simple Indian flatbread, staple food for many. In this context, it symbolizes basic sustenance and modest living, contrasting with luxurious abundance. The poor man’s satisfaction with just two roṭī reflects contentment and connection to the divine despite material scarcity.

Bas — “enough” or “that’s all.” Here, it expresses a sense of acceptance and sufficiency — “I am okay for today, God; that is enough.” It carries the tone of quiet resignation and humble gratitude, emphasizing spiritual contentment over worldly excess.

[9] (cf. 18) If the Five Acts are the Authorship of the Supreme One—the Absolute, the Eternal I—then every action manifest anywhere in creation must be understood as an act of the Supreme. When one surrenders the prideful “I,” the body-centered self, and adopts the status of the Supreme I, one no longer sees oneself as an independent doer. The food is provided, given, and consumed by the Supreme; no differentiation remains. All acts become acts of God, all actions offerings. Similarly, all letters arise from the cosmic matrix; all words function as divine mantras and hymns praising creation. A mantra embodies the power of fundamental resonance. Words orient us to reality itself, which is why their power is acknowledged. The master views this topic through a wide and profound lens.

[10] The nondual view resists being reduced to ownership or any fixed system of values, as the Abrahamic traditions—and indeed, most religions—have often attempted. Even when nonduality uses symbolic language or forms, such as mantras and deities, these are not regarded as separate absolutes, but as expressions of an essence that permeates and subsumes all. Religious idealism and fundamentalism—forces that have sown deep division in the garden, whether in India, across the world, or in the hearts of humankind—remain a point of tension for a swāmī whose path is rooted in justice and love.

[11] This passage exemplifies the distinction between the true Self and the egoic “I” to whom the master speaks. When Baba tells Kip he need not “authorize (himself!) to think about…” right and wrong, it reveals that the authentic author of thought and action transcends the small “I.” The true source does not require permission from the egoic self to act or discern. The dialogue deepens as Baba sharply rebukes Kip for responding from the standpoint of the little “I,” thereby illustrating the persistent illusion of self-agency that the teaching aims to dissolve.

[12] This is a difficult differentiation, as the conversation has now shifted from one of “I and I” to a distinct separateness of being, further laying the groundwork for a deterministic view that is both tenuous and ultimately unworkable. However, it remains an essential foundation of nondual philosophy, in that the advaita perspective—which recognizes “I and I”—also holds as true the dvaita perspective, which acknowledges duality within the confines of all-pervading unity consciousness. This presents a different philosophy that brilliantly accommodates the status of one’s own mental tendencies and the evolution of insight.

[13] This is possibly a reference to nididhyāsana in the śravaṇa (oral transmission) stage of education for a Brahmin, in which students receive śrutis, or sacred knowledge. Nididhyāsana is a stage of realization within jñāna yoga, described as a process of intellectual refinement that involves meditation on the mahāvākyas (powerful statements) from scripture, such as tat tvam asi (“Thou art That”). Although Bābājī, as an ascetic monk, is removed from the caste system, he later told me a story about having been sold to a temple as a child, where formal education may have been acquired. Nididhyāsana signifies complete comprehension of truth and its application in life. On the other hand, he once shared another story—which I had assumed was simply to mirror my own interest—about having been a philosophy student at university. In India, tertiary education is also referred to as “3rd level.”